Was American Idol Always So Argumentative?
Back when Carrie Underwood was singing her way through the American Idol auditions -- and into the Top 24, the Top 12, then all the way to the top, I don't remember the judges back on season four (Simon Cowell, Randy Jackson and Paula Abdul) getting into such heated disagreements like they do now. And I have a theory on that. Maybe nobody argued back then because they all just agreed that Underwood was "It."
But if my theory is even the slightest bit correct, that doesn't necessarily bode well for this year's contestants. It might mean that the judges (now Cowell, Jackson, Ellen DeGeneres and Kara DioGuiardi) are arguing over every tiny nuance simply because there is no clear winner like there was when Underwood took that stage. On Tuesday night's (March 30) show alone, the four bickered over who had enough potential, who was in what genre, who was outstanding and who was lacking. If you just tune in for the judging, you might think the four of them are just vying for the Judge Who Knows Best award. But the reality of this season's reality show is that there is no Underwood.
When Underwood was competing, belting out tunes like "I Can't Make You Love Me," "Independence Day," "Because You Love Me," "Love Is a Battlefield," "Alone," "Making Love Out of Nothing at All" and so many more, everyone had the same reaction. Even when Underwood wasn't at her best (like when Cowell told her she was "like a kitten who wants to be a tiger"), the three judges agreed on that. There was rarely the discord that is the norm now. And it's making me long for the days when there was more flawless singing onstage and more harmony around the judges' table.
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michku3 says:
I havn’t watched American Idol regularly since the season Carrie was on. No contestant since has really grabbed my attention like she did. Actually, I do like Kellie Pickler and Daughtry, who both came from American Idol, but Carrie is still my favorite. However, thats just my opinion.
thetrueone says:
Carrie is flawless. She always was and always will be. The judges are so darn frustrated now. There will never be a contestant as consistently flawless as Miss Carrie.
Ted says:
The show has ran its course and needs to end.The last 2 years have been awful.Simon leaving sure isn’t going to help any.
lifetime says:
who cares this is old news!!
rosyz says:
We care lifetime. You`re just in a bad mood because it seems like Carrie is all over the place lately and not to mention she just nabbed her 12th single and her tour is getting excellent reviews. Just enjoy the success of your fav artist; no need to get jealous lifetime. This a big world for all of them to be famous and popular. We are sure enjoying Carrie`s success.
Carrie is special and continue to be special in many ways. When she auditioned for AI she was very sweet and humble who grew up in a farm but had so much talent and a very good vocalist. she remains true to herself and very down to earth inspite of fame and money. She is a good role model to young adults and a real ambassadot of country music. Her talent gets better and better all the time. She can sing any songs and does it well. There was never like her after season 5 of AI.
rosyz says:
I mean her 12th hit single.
Misha says:
well said rosyz!
OldGoat34 says:
I think the lack of really great vocalists and Star Power this year is the big problem.I think they need to take the instruments away first.Go back to where it was with only Vocal Prowess “IT” or Star Power and likeability and Charisma.I think I knew the final two at Hollywood weeks end.I’ll be very surprised if I’m wrong.But I see no one in Carrie’s League even them or even Kellie’s Kellie Had Star power before she opened her mouth to sing.The judges al knew that.There are some pretty good lounge singers though.But no one thats going to sell Millions of recordings.
Netteo says:
I agree with OldGoat. No real star power this season but the judges do seem to be pushing one or two artists. Both I can not stand. There have been many good Idols (Chris, Kellie, Kelly, Bucky, Danny, the Davids) but, to me, Carrie will always be THE IDOL. She is amazing and stays sincere and humble. I also think instruments shouldn’t be allowed until top 12 or 10. Too many are hiding behind them. Bo, Carrie, Chris, etc all could play but had to prove their natural talents first. I like some instruments (Brook White’s Let it Be was fantastic!) but not all the time and not as cover.
barb b says:
lifetime when are you going to get it
through your head that carrie is the
best american idol and we all know it
I also agree with netteo some artist
are hiding behind there instruments
Kendall says:
I must say I respectfully disagree with you barb. I personally think that Kelly Clarkson is the best American Idol, but that’s just my opinion.
thetrueone says:
Kelly Clarkson is a has been. She was just popular because she was the first Idol When Carrie came along, she became the epitome of American Idol, and Kelly’s star began to diminish.
barb b says:
kendall the year kelly won we all
liked her than in 2004 carrie came
along and the rest is history i am
not being mean i liked kelly
Riley says:
I’ve just been popping into the show from time to time and I think the problem this year is the singers don’t have enough stage experience behind them so they are really starting from scratch - you take Carrie’s year- Carrie herself started at age 14 performing live at fairs, festivals and carshows, she had made demos etc, Bo had a band and had regular gigs, Constantine had been touring in the Broadway show “Rent” and so on with other Idols from those years and it makes a big difference even though Carrie, Bo and Constantine still had to adapt to the idea of millions watching you perform - that’s daunting for any performer never having had that experience - I feel they lack the ability to connect with the audience - something that Usher was repeating to them over and over as he worked with them -
Riley says:
have to clarify my last post here - I feel the contestants THIS season lack the ability to connect with the audience not Carrie, Bo and Constantine, they were great at connecting
Susan says:
I agree about the bickering judges. — It’s getting incredibly old, and I do not like Kara at all. Actually I’m not greatly excited by Underwood, but I do love this season’s Crystal Bowersox. Besides being a terrific singer/musican, she is so authentic, and reminds me of Janis Joplin, who was also totally authentic. Of course, Kara gave her some bad advice, and Crystal appeared in a short red dress and hugely high heels, without her guitar — WRONG. She suddenly became totally phony, as Simon rightly pointed out, Crystal should just be herself. It’s so refreshing to have talented female performer who doesn’t need false eyelashes and other fake items of clothing and makeup to be a great performer.
Riley says:
Crystal is not authentic as you put it - she’s fashioned herself after a Janis Joplin type and other singers - she doesn’t have her own unique style at all - I don’t know where she would fit in? Perhaps playing coffee houses??
Tenn says:
And since when did fake eyelashes and clothing keep a female artist from being authentic? Dolly Parton is as authentic as you can get and she sure loves to sing in those costumes and makeup !Heck I’m sure there’s lots of authentic female singers in all genres that wear false eyelashes -
K says:
Coming from a regular Idol watcher, I think the show has gone down the tubes this year. There is some talent like Crystal, Aaron, Katie and Casey, but most of the contestants appear to be lost onstage, don’t have a clue who they want to be as artists, and are trying too hard to disect the contridictory advice of the judges when they should probably focus more on being individualists and crafting their own niche.
The judges bickering only adds to the confusing and dissapointing nature this season- the arguing can be inappropriate with Kara’s open flirting, boring with Ellen and Randy giving the same advice, and annoying with Simon and Ryan going back and forth all the time. There doesn’t seem to be any chemistry or friendliness among the judges, which adds to the awakwardness.
Gone is the discovery of once-in-a-lifetime talent on this show. Daughtry, Carrie, David Cook, Kelly Clarkson, Diana DeGarmo, Clay Aiken, Adam Lambert, Kellie Pickler, and many others brought the talent, but also knew themselves as artists, and were able to take advice and grow into artists who could command a stage and give a convincing, emotional performance.
Carrie is the best Idol in my opinion, simply because she represents what the show is all about. An unknown, small-town girl who didn’t have the resources to get herself heard, so she took a chance. She was inexperienced and uncomfortable onstage at first, but week by week we show her grow from a shy farmgirl into a much more confident performer and stronger singer. She didn’t come in perfect, but she had potential, and she used every avenue she had to improve and become better, which is what we saw by the end.
Watching her now, it’s obvious how much Idol helped her come out of her shell and become a better artist and performer.
She has given Idol enromous crediblity, especially with her ability to give spot-on live performances, her ability to command a stage, and her explosive success in the industry with awards, downloads, concert tours and record sales seems to help naysayers digest the fact that true talent can come from anywhere if you’re still willing to stay true to yourself and work harder after Idol to prove yourself.
Carrie has opened the door for other idols to sing country music, which was a huge influence to the show. Bucky, Josh, Kellie, and Danny have all mentioned how Carrie inspired them to sing on a pop show. Now, it’s a regular sight to see singers wanting to be country and pop artists, which didn’t happen before Carrie came on the show.
barb b says:
K I love your comment it is
so true that carrie inspired
so many well written
D Trotter says:
K, I have to disagree about with just about everything you said about AI.
The individuality of this year’s talent? I believe they have FINALLY found, in Casey and Crystal, 2 genuine artists who know who they are, have natural charisma and have the chops to back it up. (They aren’t the best singers in the competition, but you know I could care less about that.)
I don’t think either one buys into the AI hype at all, and I hope they stay that way. Crystal seems amused and by all the AI razzle-dazzle, but she’s probably biting her tongue so she can make a better life for her baby; I just wish they would let her do her originals.
The one I feel sorry for is Katie — started off so young and with a very attractive natural sweetness, a great voice and the ability to hit incredible notes; now she just seems confused about her music, her appearance … everything. Good old AI. The experience is changing her all right … but not in a good way.
You describe a bunch of former contestants as “once-in-a-lifetime talent.” When I hear that term, I think
Elvis, Hank, Dylan, the Beatles — people the music historians look at after 30 years and say, “These were the artists who SHOWED US WHERE MUSIC HAD TO GO”. There’s nobody on your list like that. AI doesn’t produce ‘em. (Simon might WANT to, but he’s as conflicted about how to do it as the advice he gives).
K, don’t get caught up in the judge bickering and flirting — most of it’s just for the show.)And you think Ellen’s comments are boring?? Really? Being respectful but honest and having a quick wit?
Finally, Carrie. Like you, I’m a fan. Arguably, she had SOME influence on AI contestants leaning to Country, but saying that “singers wanting to be country and pop artists … didn’t happen before Carrie came on the show” is a little bit of hyperbole, don’t you think? Kind of like pouring a thimbleful of water and saying, “Look, it’s Niagara Falls!”
AI has ALWAYS BEEN POP. Always will be. And Carrie is pop country herself, leaning more and more heavily toward pop so I wouldn’t say that AI has “gone country” on her account.
K says:
“The individuality of this year’s talent? I believe they have FINALLY found, in Casey and Crystal, 2 genuine artists who know who they are, have natural charisma and have the chops to back it up. (They aren’t the best singers in the competition, but you know I could care less about that.)”
I disagree, but that’s relative I suppose. Honestly, I forget about many of the contestants when I turn off the TV after an hour. I’ve remembered Carrie, Daughtry,, Clay, Jordin and many others because their vocals, passion, and charisima struck a chord.
It’s dissapointing that I have yet to feel that excitment this season- which hasn’t happened in all the other seasons I have watched the show. Crystal, Casey, and Katie are talented- but they have major insecurities that should’ve been worked out by now. Casey has a fantastic voice, but he’s very forgettable- this is a common curse for past Idol contestants- see Fantasia, Kristy Lee, Phil Stacey, Clay Aiken and Bo Bice for examples.
Katie has great potential, but she’s still extremely confused about who she wants to be as an artist, and she is very inconsistent in her vocal performances. Again, she’s extremely forggetable from what I’ve seen- just another pretty, talented potential pop star. Nothing special. See Katherine McPhee as a paralle- pretty woman with a great voice at times- but her career has suffered since she landed a record deal, despite the fact that she had massive exposure from coming in second place on the biggest show in America.
I also disagree with you about having to be a lengend to have once-in-a-lifetime talent. You don’t have to be extremely successful to have incredible talent that resonates with people. When artists like Elvis and The Beatles were starting out, we didn’t know they would be legendary one day, just as we don’t know which artists in today’s crop will have that honor.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Ellen. I think she’s a fantastic person with a great comedic talent. But I don’t think she is in the position to be an Idol judge. She repeats everything Randy says, instead of coming up with her own critiques or comments. Her comnments aren’t particularly insightful- pleasant, but nothing substantial.
You’re right that Carrie wasn’t the sole reason country artists became successful on American Idol. However, I think it’s hard to argue that she was the extra push for some artists who may not have had the confidence to be a country artist on a pop show before her. There were no successful country artists on the show before her, but the fact that millions of people embraced her as a country artist on a show that was primarily for pop artists had to change the mindset a little bit in my book. As I said, Kellie, Bucky, Danny, and many other former idols have chosen to mention Carrie when discussing what influnced them to stay country on a pop show.
Carrie is not pop, and she never will be. She is a pop country artist that stuck to her grounds when she was pressured to change for her label, even after she established her position as a country artist and won the show. She has respect for old and new country music, and she’s not afraid to expose her audience to the artists she enjoys.
Sure, she has pop influences, but who doesn’t these days? She has admiration for Dolly, Randy, Reba and many others before her.
If you say Carrie isn’t the torch-bearer for country artists on American Idol, I’d like to know who you feel was? It certaintly wasn’t Josh Gracin, who was the first country artist on the show, but his career has yet to take off.
K says:
D Trotter,
First off, I know you’re not a fan of Idol, and that artists are taking an easier way to the top by going on the show.
So, it’s not surprising to me that we don’t agree on many points here.
I have been watching Idol for years, and I simply don’t think the talent and star power is up to par this year. There is talent, and I agree that many of the artists are authentic, but there is more to the show than having a great voice and being geniune.
I have yet to see a performance that grabs me this season; Where are star-in-the-making moments like “Broken Wing” by Jordin Sparks, the bone-chilling vocals of Carrie’s “Alone” or Chris Daughtry’s excellent twist on “Walk The Line?”
Many of the artists don’t even seem passionate about wanting the tittle of American Idol Winner to me. Crystal and Casey are talented, but nothing special. As Simon has said, you can find dozens of Bowersox clones singing in subway stations across the nation. Casey has a great voice, but no star power, and his just having talent doesn’t translate into a great career. See Fantsia, Clay, Ruben, Diana, Adam, and Blake Lewis for examples. Katie is in the same boat- a talented, pretty girl, but she’s lost onstage, tries too hard to please the judges and doesn’t know who she is. I see her as a lesser-known Kat McPhee.
Going off that, I cannot see Crystal having any sort of carer in music. She’s not mainstream, nor that unique once you put her in the larger landscape of the music industry. Those two factors spell death for contestants very often. Look at Adam, Blake and Bo; three of the most popular Idol contestants ever, and where are they now?
To be once-in-a-lifetime talent, you don’t have to be a legend in my opinion. Look at Carrie’s career; if you go by accomplishments and the compliments she recieves from everlasting legends, she does have the potential to be a legend. The same thing could be said for a lot of the contestants; you devalue that because they were on a TV show, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be legendary one day. You have remarked many times that you think Taylor Swift has the makings of a legend; my claims aren’t any less valuable, considering we have no clue where her career is headed, just as I don’t with my favorites.
As for the bickering? I think it devalues the show, regardless if it’s for ratings. These people are paid professionals; I look to them to live up to that. Paula and Simon may have argued, but there was no hostility like there is now. No, I don’t care for Ellen on Idol. I love her show and she seems genuine, but that doesn’t mean she’s a great addition to a singing show. If you watch closely, she does repeat much of what the other judges say, and she has a limited scope of critisim (”pitchy,” “you look great,”). You can still be genuine and give constructive criticism; I don’t see Ellen doing that.
As for Carrie, I think she has brought more to the show than you give her credit for. Before her, there was only one country singer on the show in the previous seasons (Josh Gracin), and his career never took off. Carrie’s career grew quickly, and I think she helped other contestants see that country singers can be successful on a pop show. As I said, Kellie, Bucky, and Danny have given her credit for that very thing. Carrie brought many pop fans over to country music because she exposed country music to audience full of pop fans.
I didn’t say Carrie inspired anyone to be country-pop artists; I’m saying her persence on the show probably gave some wanabee country singers the push they needed to try out for a pop show. If you don’t think she helped start the flood of country singers on the show, who did? It certaintly wasn’t Gracin.
I’m aware American Idol is a pop show. As I said, I’ve watched it for years. I also never said Carrie wasn’t country pop. However, she has always been clear about her dream of being a country artist, and she never compromised her sound, even when her label was pressuring her to be pop after American Idol. Carrie sings country music, and she does what she can to merge her favorite older artists with her audience (Randy, Reba, Dolly, and Lorreta are just a few examples). Carrie has never called herself a tardtional country artist, and just because she has pop influence doesn’t make her a pop artist.
What makes you think she “leans more towards pop?” Please go listen to her covers of “I Told You So,” “Make The World Go Away,” “Look At Me,” “Islands In The Stream,” “I Will Always Love You” and “Lousina Woman, Mississippi Man” and then tell me what you mean. She mixes some of her songs with heavy pop influence, but I would argue that 90% of her material is country both in lyrics and sound. “Cowboy Casanova” is the only song that starts to blur genre lines from what I can infer.
You seem to find it acceptable for Taylor to remix her music and sing sub-par songs, what’s the issue with Carrie doing it? Suddenly she blurs genre lines a bit and she’s “more pop” than Taylor’s blatant remixes? Please tell me how that makes sense.
A says:
Idol has given country an overproduced, Barbie Doll, pop tart, copycat with NO originality.
rosyz says:
Idol has given some good vocalists who sings better live than an album and got lots of hit singles. Ai was a means for talented artists to show their talents with hardwork and being true to themselves and being the true ambassador of country music. Some Idol are really respected by music industry and peers to win lots of awards out there .But some people are so jealous that that they need to put down those artists to make their fav artist look better . Just enjoy your fav artist success as we enjoy ours.
D Trotter says:
K, Rather than continuing these rambling 20-paragraph debates, I’m just going to say I disagree with you on most everything and keep this short and snappy.
My opinion (I get to have one, right?) is that Casey, rather than being “forgettable” HAS enormous CHARISMA and NONE of the insecurity you talk about; I believe he will be the most popular male AI ever, even eclipsing non-winner Daughtry.
Nor does Crystal has “major insecurities”. I think she’s a genuine, down-home, blue-collar gal who is keeping her perspective in the midst of the AI hoopla, knows who she is, and brings it every week. She can sing Bonnie Raitt and Janis Joplin with the best of ‘em. She has one of the most dynamite voices since Clarkson and knows who she is as an artist much better than Kelly. I predict she becomes a cross between Bonnie and Jewel.
Carrie? She’s always been pop country, now she’s leaning more toward pop, period. I’m not the only one saying it — read any of her concert reviews. I saw her in concert and it seemed to me she wants to go that way. Nothing wrong with that in my mind if that’s what she wants.
rosyz says:
It does matter what people say at least she refused to remix her songs for the sake of sales. The reviewers say pop country. She is the best. Way to go Carrie. I cant wait for your video on Undo It. It will be another amazing video.
barb b says:
UNDO IT in time will be NO# I
it is just a matter of time
rosyz says:
I mean it does not matter (referring to my above comment.
autumn anderson says:
carrie udrewoon love u songs autumn anderson
K says:
Twisting my opinions once again, D Trotter. Your post has nothing to do with anything I mentioned above.
That’s your opinion though, and I won’t change it. You can bash Idol all you want, but it’s given America some of the most authentic talent in the music industry. You won’t find any Autotuned darlings with no identity, and that’s a great thing. Talent is talent, no matter how you become discovered.
D Trotter says:
“K”, my last post didn’t “bash idol” (as you claim) even once — in fact, YOU are the one bashing them, saying “the show has gone down the tube this year”, while I’m saying they have found, in Casey and Crystal, two of their most genuine artists ever.
The quotes I used in my last post, far from “having nothing to do with your post” or “twisting your opinions” as you claim, are YOUR EXACT WORDS from your April 5th, 9:21 PM post — you called Casey “forgettable”, dissed Casey and Crystal for having “major insecurities” and then concluded they were “nothing special.” An opinion with which I differ, 100%.
I don’t deny I am no fan of the AI hysteria, which I believe distorts both public tastes and the artists’ development, integrity and individuality.
Nor has the show given us many artists of genuine, or even lasting, importance. As you often say, sales aren’t everything, and almost all the AI winners have good sales for their debut albums (thanks to the AI hype and clout) but experience rapid declines thereafter.
You say, “You won’t find any auto-tuned darlings” on the show? You might want to check that statement with veteran audio engineer Kevin Leonard, who states: “I have friends who work on American Idol and they Auto-Tune all the finalists.”
“Twisting your opinions”? Not alt all. Just stating my own opinions — they are just very different from yours.
rosyz says:
Carrie is for sure a bonafide not autotuned vocalist of all time. You read all the reviewers comments of her tour ;for sure she is one artist that is superior of the rest because her voice sounds better than her album and they say her voice is enough to carry a concert. It is not true that all AI winners are autotuned. She does not need an autotune she can sing any kind of music and does it very well.
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