Tim McGraw Couldn't Go Pop
That's what he said. "I couldn't go pop with an ass full of firecrackers," were the exact words Tim McGraw used in an interview on the Dan Patrick Show. They talk incessantly about sports, Peyton Manning, the potential of coaching at LSU and what his "man cave" looks like. (Recliner and 72-inch flat screen and not much else.) But eventually they get around to talking about music. McGraw admits he's a huge '70s rock fan. He said he likes to play the Eagles, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, the Little River Band and Led Zeppelin. Of his daughters, McGraw admits, "They're not fans of my music. They're good girls, but dad's just uncool to them." Oh, yeah, he also talks about how great his new movie, The Blind Side, is.
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Redmaz says:
McGraw, Pop is NOT an individual genre of music, it’s an industry consisting of many genres of music including your type of Country Music. You have been a Pop act since day one, and chances are good that you will always be a Pop act. Your statement is ridiculous, unless of course you or anyone else can prove you are or ever have been a Roots Music artist.
BOBBY BRACKEN says:
Tim is the man redmaz. What are you talkin about? He is a living legend and a country singer. And no, im sorry he isnt a pop singer. Get a life, your under the wrong website obviously.
Sherri says:
Tim a legend? WTF? He is clearly going down the tubes as we speak.
Redmaz says:
Bobby Bracken, your opinion may be that he’s “the man’, and a “living legend”, and all that, but it still doesn’t change the fact that he’s a Pop Country singer. As far as me getting a life, I have one and it’s music, that’s why I know he’s a Pop singer. I study these type of thing. I’m a music advocate. Pop is NOT an individual genre of music. Pop is an idustry consisting of many genres of music, including Pop Country, and that’s the genre McGraw has always been in. If you can show me where he’s recognized in any other Country Music genre OTHER than Pop, feel free to do so. I will gladly check it out.
Shadow says:
That fire cracker joke is old, too. Didn’t Waylon or Merle use it once?
SamBushFan says:
There goes Redmaz going off on his old rant about the so called “fundamentals” of music. (to Red the act of neatly classifying music in various boxes is a fundamental of music.)
What I’d like to know is in what world is it written that one must be a Roots Music artist to be considered an artist? Ya might want to take that up with someone like John Zorn and get his take on that theory. I don’t think John could ever prove he is or ever has been a Roots Music artist.
On the other end of the spectrum is Frank Sinatra who always considered himself a “popular” or “pop” singer. Do you think there’s any artistic value in his music? Hell, Frank didn’t even write his own music. Would you also say that the only people to like ‘Ol Blue Eyes are the ones who are ignorant of the basic fundamentals of music?
Just because some music doesn’t line up with your personal tastes does not mean there is no artistic merit to it.
Always Right says:
Shadow,
Waylon originally said it, but he said “mouth.”
Redmaz says:
Hi SamBushFan, Yes I’m a strong believer and supporter of basic music fundamentals, genre description, and musical advocacy. I don’t believe it’s written anywhere that I know of(although it could be) that one must be a Roots Music artist to be an artist, and that would be for the most part someones opinion. However, I find there are a lot of artists in Americana/Roots music.
As far as Sinatra, I though he was great, however my personal favorite from the Rat Pack day’s etc. was Dean Martin, and yes I agree Sinatra was very popular, however there are popular artists in Roots Music too, for example Buddy Miller. He won the “Artist of the Decade” in Americana music. He is very popular in Americana music and is in high demand. So is Alison Krauss.
And I agree with your statement about someones personal preferences and tastes, but all of this doesn’t change the fact that Tim McGraw is a Pop Country act now does it? I don’t have a problem with anyone liking anyone they want, I DO take issue however with them not knowing what it is. That’s where basic music fundamentals and genre description come into play. The offer stands for you too, if you can show me where he is, or has been recognized in Roots music, I’d like to check it out.
Jimmy says:
Pop is short for popular. Tim was once very popular, therefore he was/is a ‘pop’ artist. Pop is not necessarily a bad word, folks.
SamBushFan says:
Who ever said Tim was a roots music artist??? Tim said he couldn’t go pop. From this context it would be safe to understand Tim is using the word pop as a genre as can be seen at the end of the following definition:
The term “pop song” is first recorded as being used in 1926 in the sense of a piece of music “having popular appeal”. Starting in the 1950s the term “pop music” has been used to describe a distinct genre, aimed at a youth market, often characterized as a softer alternative to rock and roll. In the aftermath of the British Invasion, from about 1967, it was increasingly used in opposition to the term rock music, to describe a form that was more commercial, ephemeral and accessible. Although pop music is often seen as oriented towards the singles charts, as a genre it is not the sum of all chart music, which have always contained songs from a variety of sources, including classical, jazz, rock, country and novelty songs, while pop music as a genre is usually seen as existing and developing separately.
Redmaz says:
Well that was easy! That describes McGraw as a Pop Country act. Thanks SBF
SamBushFan says:
It describes “pop” as a genera. One that McGraw says he cannot do.
elizabeth says:
“Pop goes the weasel”
Diane says:
I think when people use the word pop we all know what they mean by it. I would never say Tim McGraw sings pop. He is a country artist and real good one, the best imo. I think he is also a very good actor and I cant wait till Friday to see The Blind Side.
Redmaz says:
Diane, I firmly disagree with your statement “we all know what they mean by it”. So you agree with the definition proposed by SamBushFan? If not could you give me your definition?
To SBF, so where do you stand? You believe Pop is an individual genre of music, and there is no such thing as Pop Country, Pop Rock etc? Just “Pop”? If so,, I have a series of questions to ask you. For a minute lets go with the definition you offered… My first questions being, you don’t believe McGraw’s music is commercial, ephemeral and accessible?
I guess what we really need is McGraw’s definition of Pop first..
solongsowrong says:
SamBushFan: I posted this exact same definition of Pop music a long time ago back on the old CMT boards… and agree with it. You failed to also list the characteristics of it, though. Thinks like an aim of appealing to a general audience, rather than to a particular sub-culture or ideology. Or an emphasis on craftsmanship rather than formal “artistic” qualities. There’s more, but since you found the definition, you know where to find the rest of the descriptions, too. Also, if you look farther into definitions of Pop, you will find it described as modern or popular music.
The part you seem to be getting confused on, when you pointed out about the last part of the definition, is that the word USUALLY is used, to describe Pop as existing separately as a genre in itself. That means it is not ALWAYS used that way, so it doesn’t mean it’s the sole usage of the word. Democrats USUALLY think Republicans are full of it, and Republicans think Democrats are full of it, but it doesn’t mean in reality that it’s always the way it is, now does it? Same applies here when talking about Pop music.
As is pointed out, in around 67, the term started being used more to describe a form that was more commercial, ephemeral and accessible. On top 40 radio, a form I listened to for many years, the music of Johnny Cash was played right along with artists like Chicago, Pat Benatar, Paul McCartney, and Cher. The term cross-over artist was used all the time, but it didn’t change the fact that these artists were all played on the same format, and it was all more commercial, ephemeral and accessible, than other forms of music that were more Roots orientated in nature.
Commercial, ephemeral and accessible. Modern or popular music. Appealing to a general audience, rather than to a particular sub-culture or ideology. All sounds like what Tim McGraw sings to me.
Since it’s either Pop or Roots, when talking about music…and you already admitted he’s not Roots orientated…that leaves Pop.
We all have our own beliefs on the subject, but as Red pointed out, knowing what McGraw’s definition of Pop is, would be a big help in knowing what he’s talking about here. If he’s as screwed up in his thinking as George Jones is, chances are he really never did any studying on the subject, doesn’t look at any charts other than billboard, and doesn’t realize that he’s listened as a POP Country artist, and isn’t recognized on any of the other Country charts.
Twangtown7. says:
Tim is more worried about making cologne, Hallmark cards, and movies nowadays…
Bullride says:
I agree with redmaz and solongsowrong. Why do so many people have a problem with and accepting the fact that there is such a thing as pop country?
Jacky7777 says:
Tim McGraw is cool, hot and Country’s Superstar. People are taking his remark out of content. Pop genre loves Tim, he has won awards many times in pop music. Love that Tim McGraw!
Pop country fan…. says:
There is a long list of pop artist. Youd be suprised whos on list. Great company. Includes….
Lynn Anderson
Bermuda Triangle Band
Debby Ryan
Bon Jovi
Brooks and Dunn
Chips
Ha*Ash
John Conlee
Billy Ray Cyrus
Kikki Danielsson
Mac Davis
Sara Evans
Halestorm
Exile
Donna Fargo
Janie Fricke
Larry Gatlin
Crystal Gayle
Mickey Gilley
Barbara Mandrell
Louise Mandrell
Lila McCann
Ronnie Milsap
Montgomery Gentry
Anne Murray
Juice Newton
Olivia Newton-John
Marie Osmond
Rissi Palmer
Dolly Parton
Eddie Rabbitt
LeAnn Rimes
Kenny Rogers
T.G. Sheppard
Margo Smith
Billie Jo Spears
Taylor Swift
Trace Adkins
Sylvia
Shania Twain
Sugarland
Tanya Tucker
Keith Urban
Dottie West
Oak Ridge Boys
Neal McCoy
Alabama
D says:
This whole debate is pretty rediculous. Tim is basically saying no matter how big he gets, he would never get away with putting out a completely non-country album, standing along the likes of “pop” acts like Cher, Madonna, Justin Timberlake, etc. He made a “rap-pop” song with Nelly that was hugely successful, but Tim was still singing “country”.
His wife, Faith, however could go any which way, she’s a very versatile singer. She sounds good singing country, gospal, love ballads, rock, and “pop.”
Tim has had much success in the overall “pop” genre, but he will always be a “country” artist.
SamBushFan says:
When you get right down to it all country music, whether it be neo-country, old timie, country pop, roots music etc. it is a type of popular music. From the very beginning country music was created for the common man by the common man. It was never meant to be, nor is it today, anything more. The term “Roots Music” says it in it’s title. Roots. As in grass roots. The basics, no high minded frills and experiments. Just common music. I cannot think of a single song in the history of country music that could ever be considered cutting edge, Avant-garde music. Not that this is a bad thing, it’s just not what this type of music strives to be. At it’s very core country music is a type of pop music, even in it’s most artistic form.
The biggest difference between “Roots Music” and “Country Pop” is one was created mostly to tell a story or share an emotion, if it sells well that’s a great bonus. The others main goal is to appeal to the greatest number of people and sell well, if it tell a great story, that’s a great bonus. Outside of personal opinion one is not better than the other. You probably don’t want to hear this but there is just as much art to creating a song that will appeal to the masses as there is to writing music that tells a great story. If you can pull off the rare task and do both in a single song, you usually end up with not just good but great art.
brat says:
If nobody wants to listen to it why write it?
SamBushFan says:
What I’m saying is “pop” music is relative. Compared to other types of music country music in any of it’s forms is basically pop music. To a modern jazz or advant-garde classical music fan Roots Music is every bit “pop music” as Redmaz thinks Tim McGraw is.
In short, when Tim said he couldn’t go pop, he was speaking of the musical genere called pop. The one that included Brittany Spears, Madonna, Wham, the Beach Boys etc.
SamBushFan says:
Brat, to make art for ones own enjoyment is the purest form of art there is. Where is it written that a song has to be created for anyone other than the artist?
Snookie Lanson says:
Well now, anybody that’s a Sam Bush fan can’t be all wrong. Sam’s the man when it comes to playing that mandolin. Not bad on the fiddle either. But I got to say, I read the interview, and I must have somehow missed that part where Tim said he was talking about Brittany Spears, Madonna and company. You all sure you’re not reading that part into it?
You keep on seem to be forgetting about Tim’s music being the form of Country music that’s the most commercial, ephemeral and accessible. That, my Fellow Sam Bush fan, describes Pop music to… a…. tee. Now I’m far from saying being a Pop artist is necessarily a bad thing. Made him a rich man, in fact. Don’t matter what the genre, Pop has its place and Tim’s place is right there as a Pop artist. A Pop Country artist, to be precise. Not my title nor any one’s else’s here. That’s the accepted current moniker, so I accept it for what it is. Appears Pop country fan accepts it with glee as well. Nice list you put together there.
So SamBushfan, how you enjoying Sam’s new album?